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have been put forth by the republicans and will work with turning the next several generations into indentured servants to the goverment. |
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You keep givin' it back to those good ole' boys in the progressive party. I am so sick and tired of hearing about how no one is bringing forth any other ideas. Well just because they are closed minded to any other 'free market' ideas doesn't mean they have been proposed. We the People demand more from our government, and yes it is our government not your Barack |
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their ideas will work and will enslave our children as the democrat socialist partys plan will . are you anti free choice? |
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Oh, what a smart girl you are!!
So, let's just think a minute. If the taxes people pay as penalty for not having what the government deems "right" where will all those tax dollars collected go?
To another fund? Aw! Let's title it. The Health Care Fund. Yeah, that's GOOD. And one year, when the revenues exceed the budget, the government will borrow that money because by law, it can, to use to pay back the Social Security Fund. Yeah. And THEN taxes won't have to be raised to 63% to pay back what the government already owes by stealing our money for more entitlements!!!
Oh. Wait. The SS fun will be bankrupt before the HCF makes any money. My bad. |
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Spontaneous is an idiot. Great work Michelle, but what is needed is an effective advertising campaign and a media blitz to explain exactly how the measures you and others are proposing would be better than the slow death march to government control. I left the Republican party in 2004 because it is so poorly run and just a slightly slower march to socialism than the social democrats. The republicans blew it when they were in charge and they are not doing much better now. |
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All we need do is look back over the last 30 to see what went horribly WRONG with wingnut logic and "trickle down" stupidity, and you'll know that the culmination of disastrous Republican leadership has placed you clowns RIGHT where you need to be: MARGINALIZED and ABHORRED.
Funny how you asshat idiots seem to believe that the economic meltdown started only 9 months ago. Goes to show you that you can never trust an ignoramus to follow the path of the greater good. It's always about the money, greed and being a tool for the wealthiest asshats out there. You guys should be so embarrassed for your stupidity, but of course, you aren't smart enough to notice. |
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I am inclined to agree. Democrats should let the American people see what’s in the health care bill. However, the administration seems to have allowed congressional liberals full reign over the health care bill's direction. Here’s a telling video that shows Candidate Obama promising to show health care negotiations on C-SPAN, while President Obama let Harry Reid write the bill behind closed doors:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmNdV0PSRy4
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You can keep throwing this hogwash out there, and we'll keep calling it what it is.
From the Tribune editorial: "Limiting certain kinds of damage awards would reduce spending on health care by about $11 billion in 2009, or about one-half of 1 percent, the Congressional Budget Office estimates."
There you have it, one of the keys to "Republican" health care: making sure corporations get to keep as much money as they can regardless of what it means to actual people. One half of one percent! as Grandma used to say, "Bee Eff Dee."
From Michele: "To the contrary, Democrats have shut Republicans out of all discussions on drafting the health care bill."
Another flat-out lie that gets repeated a lot. For one thing, Baucus just gutted the whole Democratic outline, trying to get some Republican votes, and he got one. For another, Obama himself had Republican congressional leaders to the White House, and he offered them tort reform. What did they offer in return? Nothing. To his face.
And it's easy to understand why. Republicans don't want ANY health reform. In 1993, they pitched the same baloney: "Oh yes, we want health care reform. Look, we're offering our own plans!" And when Clinton's bill died, they forgot all about it. It's the same thing today. The Democrats could put in every one of the ideas in that Tribune editorial, and they still wouldn't get more than a handful of Republican votes.
Why don't you just be honest and say so, Michele? |
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"Here’s a telling video that shows Candidate Obama promising to show health care negotiations on C-SPAN, while President Obama let Harry Reid write the bill behind closed doors."
Do you READ this nonsense before you post it?
1. Health care negotiations HAVE BEEN on C-SPAN. It's about the only thing that's gone on in Congress for months now.
2. Who told you that the Congressmen get permission from the president when they write bills? Nobody ever writes bills on TV - have you ever seen staffers with pen and pencil, or word processing? No. They hold hearings and discuss options and then they write bills, and then they present the bills for debate and amendment.
Lord, but you people are desperate. |
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Let's eliminate state restrictions. That would throw them into a tizzy, suddenly having to compete with companies out of state. Why, they'd actually have to get competitive, you know, offer lower premiums and better services. Tell me, Marxists, why you are opposed to this? Oh, wait, I know! 'Cause it means you can't CONTROL people's healthcare, you Nazis. |
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What your write makes sense. Of course the loony libs would never want a sensible solution. |
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Did you switch to Sanka this morning? Go ahead, run down to Starbucks for a triple whatever and wash it down with a Red Bull.
Mayber that will improve your attitude.
Anyway relax.......... you have the numbers "The American People want........" and all that so .....Why worry???
"Lord, but you people are desperate"
Desperate?? What's with all of your bching????
You guys are in control!!! With the numbers you have in congress and the support of the American People you should easily have this done by the August recess!
You even have Oily Snow on board and ......huh? She's out? Ummmmmm? Well.... don't worry....everybody loves the public opt out option that will be a way for the option to opt out of the public..... as soon as Nan finds a new name for it. Any truth to the rumor she is working w/ The Calvin Klein people on a name? Then a billboard?
So again relax Shine! Everybody wants it. Everybody's for it. So everybody should get it.
(Ahhhh...you thought I would mention your daughter didn't you??? Fooled you!!)
And more of the bright side:
You won the election.
You got your wise latina.
You got Al Frankin in the Senate.
And you got..... you got.... a wise latina from the Senate...........
So stop huffin' the shoe polish fumes, kick up your feet and sing along w/ me.........
Blue sky's smiling at me......
Nothin' but blue sky's....... C'mon everybody!
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"Let's eliminate state restrictions."
You want the federal government to override the states?
"That would throw them into a tizzy, suddenly having to compete with companies out of state."
They have to compete now; any insurance company can sell insurance in any state. State restrictions don't say things like "Aetna can't sell insurance in this state."
They DON'T compete because they've agreed among themselves not to. The health insurance industry is not currently subject to anti-trust laws, and they've used that fact to divide up the states among themselves and establish near monopolies in them. There's no reason to believe that they wouldn't continue those monopolies if state regulations were repealed; they'd just have less regulations on their monopoly. Why should they compete? |
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"For one thing, Baucus just gutted the whole Democratic outline, trying to get some Republican votes, and he got one. For another, Obama himself had Republican congressional leaders to the White House, and he offered them tort reform. What did they offer in return? Nothing. To his face. "
First of all, Obama has outsourced the entire bill to Congressional Dems. Obama offered nothing, as he had nothing to offer. Both Reid and Pelosi said emphatically that there will be no caps on Medical Malpractice. Obama did nothing to correct that (as if he really wanted). Secondly, this past week, the Senate Dems closed the doors to the GOP when they crafted thier latest Senate Version. |
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"Tell me, Marxists, why you are opposed to this? Oh, wait, I know! 'Cause it means you can't CONTROL people's healthcare, you Nazis."
I think it's worth a look, so here's one Marxist, sorry, I mean Nazi, ooops, no, I mean . . . well, WHATEVER term you're using this week, who's not opposed.
But I do think it's entertaining to see conservatives proposing that the federal government take precedence over state laws - you don't see that very often.
And if insurance companies had state boundaries withdrawn, which state do you think would be the first to just remove ALL regulation? Because, of course, then all the insurance companies would incorporate in that state. |
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"First of all, Obama has outsourced the entire bill to Congressional Dems."
Of course he did. That was part of the strategy from the beginning.
"Obama offered nothing, as he had nothing to offer. Both Reid and Pelosi said emphatically that there will be no caps on Medical Malpractice."
But if you think the president of the United States has no influence on what goes into bills, you need to go back to seventh-grade civics. Obama did in fact offer tort reform to congressional Republicans. When they slapped him down, tort reform went away - what did you expect?
"Secondly, this past week, the Senate Dems closed the doors to the GOP when they crafted thier latest Senate Version."
They locked the doors in a childish response to the Republicans childish video. Shame on all of them. You are aware, aren't you, that the majority party does the actual writing? That is, unless it's the Republicans, in which case it's the lobbyists who do the actual writing. |
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"State restrictions don't say things like "Aetna can't sell insurance in this state."
You're right Bob.
State restrictions say things that make Aetna (and just about every other carrier) say things like "You've got to be kidding me!! We can't do business here, provide services, employ people and show a reasonable ROI under these restrictions. See ya!!"
Then they issue the pink slips, dump the insured's and leave town.
Nice! Isn't it?
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"Then they issue the pink slips, dump the insured's and leave town."
So there are states in which no companies are willing to sell insurance because they can't make a profit? Which ones? |
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is an oxymoron. GOP held the POTUS, house and senate from 2001 to 2007. Not aware of them tackling this problem.
Please filibuster. If the opt out plan passes, please have your state opt out. |
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"So there are states in which no companies are willing to sell insurance because they can't make a profit? Which ones?"
Profit?
Did I say profit?
No I didn't say profit Bob.
Try again Bob. |
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most insurance companys are showing a 4%to 6% profit , that's not much. Given the current level of goverment waste. i can't see how a public option could ever be in the black . becuase of that there is no reason to dump this budget monstrosity on the backs of our children . can you imagine what this will do to payroll taxes ? you guys are in controll you have the congress and the presidency so go ahead and do it. i dare you! start it now immediatly if it's so good and see how many of you are left when the next election roles around |
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Just remember the taxes and fees will kick in long before the so called insurance reform. Just wonder how many will be happy when they see just how much their free health care will cost.
I doubt that once they get the bill and nothing more the 2012 election will be a bloodbath for sure. |
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"Did I say profit?"
No, you said ROI, "return on investment." Do you not understand what those two terms mean? |
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"Did I say profit?"
"No, you said ROI, "return on investment." Do you not understand what those two terms mean?'
Yes. I do. Which begs the obvious question.
Do you Bob?
Tell you what. Explain to me what those two terms mean in detail and if I think you're up to it, I'll continue our little debate.
And if you can't explain it.....well then I understand that too.
OK Bob?
And oh yeah........I used the word 'reasonable' in front of ROI and not zero or none (or nada, zip nothing etc).
When you're finished w/ the ROI profit thing, feel free to start explaining how you missed that too.
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Sorry that Republicans were locked out.
I know I get sad when I'm excluded. But happy to see that they are strong enough to rally and add several dozen amendments to the health care bills.
As far as the economy, to use a farm analogy, it's better to borrow from the bank to buy planting supplies than to eat your seed.
I choose that analogy as Mrs. Bachmann should be familiar with agriculture what with her Wisconsin farm enterprise yielding Federal crop subsidy checks for these many years. |
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While you are at it.... have Shine finish that pair of Nacona's I sent him yesterday.......
Thanks Bob. |
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To whoever was grumbling about insurance companies making profit. I don't mind an insurance company making a profit off of me. If it is doing so, it is because I chose to purchase its service meaning I liked the price and I liked what I would get by paying for it.
This is vastly preferrable to the government giving me no choice in the matter, choosing instead to take my money, by force if necessary, to waste in any way it pleases.
When my money flows through my voluntary choice into an insurance company all sorts of great things happen. If I don't get sick my money is helping others who do. If I do get sick I get my money back and if I haven't paid in enough, money other people have voluntarily given will help me pay my bills. Also a bunch of people get have gainful employment, and I probably am helping people with their retirement funds.
--
Someone said something about the Federal government interfering with the states. The disingenuous argument was essentially that states should be free to regulate the industry and why is it the government's business.
This sort of thing is one of the reasons we scrapped the articles of confederation and drafted the constitution. States were interfering with the flow of products between them. The Federal government has commerce power precisely to address this issue. If I want to buy something from another state, I am supposed to be able to do so without interference by my state or another one. At the least the Federal government should examine the issue and decide if a state's policy is harming the flow of commerce, and if necessary stop that state from doing so. |
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Eugene: "Did I say profit?"
me: "No, you said ROI, "return on investment." Do you not understand what those two terms mean?"
Eugene: "Yes. I do."
Apparently you don't.
Given up on the insure/ensure thing, have you? Or your original declaration that insurance companies have closed down operations and ceased selling insurance in particular states because they couldn't "show a reasonable ROI?" What states? What insurance companies? Is no one now selling insurance in those states? |
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insurance plans, according to its governor. Why 3? If the free-market is so wonderful, why don't more companies open plans for people to buy there? |
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"States were interfering with the flow of products between them"
What products are flowing from one state to another when you buy an insurance policy from a company with its headquarters in another state?
In fact, that situation happens all the time. The big insurance companies all sell insurance in several states, not only the one where their headquarters are. But they have colluded to divide up the states so that each has several of them almost entirely to itself, a near monopoly. They just want their monopoly to be less restricted by the regulations of the better-regulated, less corruptible states. |
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Step in it a little high there didn't you Bob?
Just have shine get those boots ready by 5:00.
Thanks Bob!
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I never said this started nine months ago, you freaking idiot. But, don't forget to include your side's part in this. They are not blameless and they are taking us all to the cleaners. 500 billion in new taxes, you twit. Yet another lie on the Pied Piper's plate.
Do you think it's going to appear by magic? And FYI, gas prices are starting to rise indicating a real humdinger of inflation that is moving upward. What part of that don't you get? |
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"Thanks Bob!"
Eugene's way of giving up the argument. Understandable. |
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Give it up. We're talking to people who seem to actually believe that Blue Cross only sells insurance in one state. They're NOT ALLOWED to sell in other states, right?
And Jean can't give up an argument if he/she/it never started, can she? |
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"Eugene's way of giving up the argument. Understandable"
Not at all, Bob. Not at all.
Just demonstrating that when you don't like a statement you move right past it in a smiliar fashion.
You can't disprove my comments so you come up with your own little shadows and fog.
And now we see Bob's way of giving up on an argument.
Understandable! |
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I got munck on the ropes because he can't disprove what I say and Shine is chiming in on the pity pot.....
Like I posted earlier..
Blue sky's all around me!!!! Nothin' but Blue Sky's....... |
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Even with only half an eye open, you can see the Republicans' plans are the true healthcare reform while Obamacare is a horrible healthcare deform. We need to educate the young about the horror of obamacare. D. Morris says the best way to now stop ObamaCare is to educate those under 30. This 3-D, anti-Obamacare ad is a great way to do it on their own turf: YouTube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpQlTN9kgfo
THIS is how conservatives need to start diversifying their messages to the youth audience so conservative messages all aren’t just scenes of tea parties and paintings of patriotic scenes. Please make this go viral, everyone. Please hurry! We can make an impact!
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As with global warming, this is a made-up emergency to designed to consolidate power. Tweaking the system is a better option than totally remaking it. If cost is such a big issue, why is there no tort reform in any of the proposals? This is not about helping anyone, it is about power. |
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Isn't it cute Vladdy coming to the defense of his little buddy Munck. I just heard that Munck's mommy was so excited that somebody might like her little obnoxious son that she jumped to the phone to call Vlad's mom to see if he could come over for a play date. |
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you mean? The one that allows the anti-trust exemption as long as the states are regulating properly? Well, that ship has sailed, doncha think? The states have piled on requirement after requirement, driving insurance companies out and leaving one or two with a virtual monopoly, as in Alabama. Telling an insurance company what they have to cover is NOT regulation, it's mandating. True regulation is nothing more than ensuring companies honor the contract they write, that if someone buys a Cadillac plan, they get a Cadillac plan, if someone buys catastrophic, then they get catastrophic. Because they have overstepped their true regulatory function, the states are now interfering with interstate commerce. That's an enumerated power, which means the Feds can revoke McCarran. Will they? It's a cheap way to fix the issue and open up national competition. Much cheaper than the public option. |
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You complain endlessly.
Let's review some things with the understanding that I am aware you are conservative...
Hayek teaches us that conservatives are always pulled in a direction that they otherwise would not care to go. This is true as justified by the consolidation and manifestation of conservatism exemplified by the GOP for the last 8 years.
Increased growth of government departments, more regulation in all areas of government oversight, an increase in the departmentalization of government, and increases in subsidies are all bitter pills for conservatives to swallow; particularly since they occurred on their watch.
You complain of the public not being aware of the alternatives to the monstrous H.R. 3200 bill. H.R. 3218 is what I support (I should, my representative had a large hand in it), but it gets absolutely zero airplay.
Who's fault is that? G. O. P.
They still haven't learned to craft a coherent message and distribute it to mass market outlets since 1994.
A golden opportunity wasted in response to the President's nationwide address on this issue, and what did conservatives get? A Rep who shouts, "You lie!", and a response that mentioned nothing about the Republican alternatives that were clearly on the table at the time.
Nothing. You know what Billy Preston sang about regarding nothing, yes?
That's why you're failing ma'am. Off-target; off message; failure to even take over your own party.
Hayek was absolutely correct. |
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"If cost is such a big issue, why is there no tort reform in any of the proposals?"
Bachmann's own link says that tort reform would save one half of one percent of total health care costs. "Tort reform" is just Republican for "let rich people keep their money." |
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"It's a cheap way to fix the issue and open up national competition."
Exactly right. States will compete to see who can remove the most regulations and thereby attract the most insurance headquarters offices. That's why we have such marvels of free market 'competition' as 40% interest rates on credit cards from banks based in Delaware. |
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C-span is broadcasting what goes on behind that closed door we've seen ALL WEEK LONG on the Cavuto show. I assume she is a Communist girl, since she is self-named Vladimir Estrogen. Correct me if I am wrong on this. What I see on Cspan in not what is going on behind the closed door! |
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"let rich people keep their money."
Nothing wrong with that.
What do you have against it? |
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It does nothing more than tell us who you are. What you said in comment #1 is exactly what democrats have done to our inner-city people (the indentured servant comment). |
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HERE IS THE PROMISE OF THE 9/12 REVOLT TO MEMBERS OF CONGRESS:
IF YOU VOTE FOR THE GOVERNMENT TAKEOVER OF HEALTHCARE, WE WILL VOTE YOU OUT OF OFFICE.
WE PROMISE. |
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"I assume she is a Communist girl, since she is self-named Vladimir Estrogen."
Wow, David! Gotta get up pretty early in the morning to get ahead of you! |
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I know I get sad when I'm excluded. But happy to see that they are strong enough to rally and add several dozen amendments to the health care bills.
WHAT HEALTH CARE BILL? ALL I HAVE SEEN ARE POWER GRAB BILLS. Nothing at all about health care reform... just bigger government and more debt! |
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We should concentrate on defeating this bill in any form. Discussion of alternatives will facilitate a scaled back bill which will be just as devastating, moving us incrementally toward the same result - socialized medicine. Even without any mention of the public option, rationing or compulsory insurance, all of these will be visited upon us - just a little later, and by a more devious route.
All versions of the healthcare bill grant wide discretionary power to bureaucrats, allowing them to accomplish with regulations anything that is inconvenient to mention now, thus bypassing the democratic process. Obama controls those bureaucrats. He has publicly stated his ultimate goal of a single payer system.
So we must bring this process to a complete halt NOW. The only way to do that is to make it absolutely clear to our representatives that THEY WILL BE VOTED OUT OF OFFICE IF THEY SUPPORT IT. There is a website where you can pledge to vote against politicians supporting the bill. Representatives will then be informed of how many votes they are losing. It is called http://www.PledgeOfLiberty.com
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You claim the Chicago papers endorse that "plan" of yours that would do nothing more than allow a tax credit for premiums paid on Individual policies? You call THAT major comprehensive reform of our terminally broken health care system? What a flippin joke! How will that get insurance for the 47 million now uninsured? How will that eliminate the waiting periods for pre-existing conditions and rejections for those who apply with serious conditions? What about the many limitations and exclusions now on every private health insurance policy in America that allows Insurance Companies to collect premiums, without having to pay claims? What about AFFORDABILITY? What good is all "reform" if nothings done to stop the annual double digit % increase in premiums? You only prove that YOUR party is being bribed by the ruling elite to keep the status quo with Health care in America. |
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Bryan: since you are so sure there is a bill, post the link to it so we can read it.
We need a constitutional amendment requiring the posting of any congressional bill (except declaration of war if we are attacked) of not less than 14 days!
I don't see how you can make make an adult argument against it. If we can't take that long to deliberate something that important, then we are writing too many bills!
Guess what; we obviously are! You are the desperate one!
" Please please please, let me regulate something, anything! I can't function in the real world! The only thing I can do is regulate what other people do"
"Bryan
"Here’s a telling video that shows Candidate Obama promising to show health care negotiations on C-SPAN, while President Obama let Harry Reid write the bill behind closed doors."
Do you READ this nonsense before you post it?
1. Health care negotiations HAVE BEEN on C-SPAN. It's about the only thing that's gone on in Congress for months now.
2. Who told you that the Congressmen get permission from the president when they write bills? Nobody ever writes bills on TV - have you ever seen staffers with pen and pencil, or word processing? No. They hold hearings and discuss options and then they write bills, and then they present the bills for debate and amendment.
Lord, but you people are desperate." |
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some form of this bill will pass. If the country is lucky, the so-called conservatives will filibuster it, and that will expose them for what they are--against any reform.
Your plan, R, is actually what reactionaries want...just say no. They don't care about those in their own towns and states who are uninsured, they just care about themselves and their insurance company boosters. |
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This site and others claim that more "Free market solutions" will solve all of this nations problems for our Health Care delivery system. Here's the common sense facts about that claim. If the Conservatives real want Tort Reform, why after 8 years of Bush, 6 of which was with control of BOTH houses, that they never got it done? Same thing for "we need more competition for insurance companies to sell across state lines". Nonsense. Insurance companies have always had that ability, as long as they register with the state in question, and abide by state Health Insurance laws. They can, and do in all states that they wish to sell in now. Now as to the Exeye joker's demand for all states to drop any existing Health Insurance laws so that it would make it more desirable for cross state selling. Since when did the CONSERVATIVE party start taking away states rights? Or, is that soley for when it suites their ideology? More importantly, do you have clue one about the absolute need that even the most conservative states have for consumer protection against Health Insurance fraud? Perhaps YOU need to have a major claim denied for no good reason to get a reality check! |
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I'm sure your plan is brilliant. I just have such a negative association with "Choice" of itself though, that unless it's in the context of "school choice," I can do without it. I'm glad Republicans are still being proactive. I'm all for a "Conservative" party and hope all good Republicans (voters and elected officials) switch over. |
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I was on Foxnews.com a week ago and many of the people commenting, were referring people to a website called http://www.Dearpolitician.org. I went to the site to see what the big deal was and was SHOCKED! Amazing site! All I can say is, "It's about time someone made a site like this". In a nutshell, you simply create an account, login, it pulls all your politicians addresses for you, you type the body of the letter, then you choose if you want to print them off and mail them yourself, or have Dearpolitician.org fax your letter to all the politicians that you chose. The really cool thing, is that you can choose to send your letter to complete Senate and Cogressional committees. WOW! Oh Ya, it's completely free and non-partisan. Check it out! |
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John wishes for a Conservative Party instead. lmao There hasn't been a Republican Party for 20 years since I left it and The bible totin' Conservatives took it over. |
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I was on Foxnews.com a week ago and many of the people commenting, were referring people to a website called http://www.Dearpolitician.org. I went to the site to see what the big deal was and was SHOCKED! Amazing site! All I can say is, "It's about time someone made a site like this". In a nutshell, you simply create an account, login, it pulls all your politicians addresses for you, you type the body of the letter, then you choose if you want to print them off and mail them yourself, or have Dearpolitician.org fax your letter to all the politicians that you chose. The really cool thing, is that you can choose to send your letter to complete Senate and Cogressional committees. WOW! Oh Ya, it's completely free and non-partisan. Check it out! |
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"Health Care "Competition" & Tort Reform
This site and others claim that more "Free market solutions" will solve all of this nations problems for our Health Care delivery system. Here's the common sense facts about that claim. If t etc.etc.
Given the cost and effectiveness of virtually all government programs of this type, you are willing to surrender control of 1/6 of the economy to these people.
I will take the status quo, as imperfect as it is.
BTW: I do not have health insurance, but I can get health care. Its always been available if you care to look for the resources. 15 years ago, I saw this problem coming and took control of what I do to my own body, what I put in it, etc. In that way, I am not taking up resources that can be used by those that need them. I recognize that there are those people.
But I am an individual, not a member of the "collective hive" who require help from others in order to execute the most basic life functions. Most of you who require that put yourself in that situation. You are the ones sucking up the resources that could go to the actual poor, which are probably 10% of the population.
You guys make up the area from the 10% real poor up to the roughly 50% that eat out of the public trough. We could afford to help the 10% if it werent for the rest of you.
Have a good life being dependent on others.......well, it won't work well, but if its what you choose............ |
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Chris, just because factcheck has the word "fact" in it does not mean that they have debunked anything. Who runs the factcheck website? I know, do you? Anyone trying to debunk the "myths" about HR3200 are going strictly on the wording of the bill. They do not address how the wording can be twisted and changed for any interpretation depending on agenda. Why do you think that a team of lawyers gets together to write the final wording of any bill? They leave it open for the interpretation of lawyers in case anyone gets taken to court. They write vague bills.
Please name for me Chris( and also post the link) the name and the text of the final bill ASAP. I want transparency and the healthcare debate in congress on tv like Obama promised.
You missed the entire point of the article that was posted. The topic here is " Why does the media and the democrat party say that the GOP has not offered any reform?" The GOP and the looters are lost in greed and power, but the GOP has offered reform for health care and health insurance. Those are also two different things.
Stay on topic |
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For those red meat Conservatives out there, please note what the Chicago Tribute article that Rep. Bachmann likes said about medical malpractice reform...
"Control health costs in part by reining in the medical malpractice system that raises insurance premiums and forces doctors to order tests to protect themselves from lawsuits. Limiting certain kinds of damage awards would reduce spending on health care by about $11 billion in 2009, or about one-half of 1 percent, the Congressional Budget Office estimates."
$11 billion is not pocket change, but it is small potatoes in the total annual cost of health care in the U.S. of A.(private and public). Malpractice reform is not "the answer" to raising health care costs. But it could be a small part. What else 'ya got to control costs? |
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Where did you go?
C'mon man. No insurance company ever tanked on a state due to over reg cutting into the ______.
You should be able to prove that!!! |
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"You can't disprove my comments so you come up with your own little shadows and fog."
"I got munck on the ropes because he can't disprove what I say and Shine is chiming in on the pity pot."
"C'mon man. No insurance company ever tanked on a state due to over reg cutting into the ______. You should be able to prove that!!!"
Of course I can. Here's a list of all the health insurance companies who have ceased operations in a state because state regulations prevented them from getting a reasonable ROI:
[beginning of list]
.
.
.
[end of list]
There you go, an empty list. That proves you were wrong to claim that there are such companies, that they include Aetna "and just about every other carrier." Notice that Aetna isn't in the list. |
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Same boring stuff from the right. The rich corporations aren't making enough money, and we just need a solution that allows them to suck more money out of the rest of us... |
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When the rich get richer, everyone is better off.
Jobs are created and families make and spend money on goods and services that create income for many other families. It is this cycle of wealth that increases the lives of all.
Libs are too stupid to realize this cycle and disrupt and destroy it with their socialist government policies and regulation. They are so ignorant of the reality of wealth, that they leave no alternative but to be classically diagnosed morons! Look at what they do when they have the legislative power! They make a sow out of a silk purse and call it progression!
Complete utter imbecilic, brainless idiots on display for all to watch and learn! They are parasites, baking their own host and expect to be better for it! |
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And it certainly doesn't prove that I am wrong.
You say I'm wrong. You prove I am wrong.
Here's a little tip pally.
I work in the insurance industry. For close to 20 years now.
You want the list?
Earn it.
Or work for a company that pulled a whole division out of a state due to regs yourself.
The same way I did.
Thump!
Check with Ax for some ice. That knot on your head is starting to swell.
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Munck just went off to stick his head in the freezer. Lots of swelling from that one. |
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"You say I'm wrong. You prove I am wrong."
That's right, I did.
"I work in the insurance industry. For close to 20 years now."
And yet you can't provide those instances of Aetna "and just about every other carrier" ceasing to do business in a state because of being unable to make a reasonable ROI. Come on, list the states and the companies.
I guess 20 years as a janitor in a car insurance agency doesn't give you the insights that you thought they did. |
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Someone has got to be cleaning up after your visits. Stop leaving your depends in the sink. We know it's you. Your mom sewed your name in them.
Got a problem with people who work as janitors? Why? Too good for them Bob? I like our janitors better than say, the narcissistic tech geeks in IT. Hey you're a narcissistic tech geek, aren't you Bob? Small wonder.
Uhhhhhhh when did I mention Aetna today?
I think you are either lying again or are confused again. Aetna Bob?
I think you are lying again Bob.
"Come on, list the states and the companies."
No.
And why should I? So you will like me? You think way too much of yourself Bob, but I am going to cut you some slack tonight on that subject.
Now.
You are the one asking people to believe that no (zero, none, zip, nada) insurance company has ever (never, wouldn't, shouldn't,couldn't) ceased conducting business ( and all that that imply's) in a state due to that states laws and policy's and it's affect on the bottom line.
You prove it hasn't happened.
Or let the audience decide.
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Yeah. Think of the carbon footprint! |
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"Uhhhhhhh when did I mention Aetna today?"
12:09 PM
"Come on, list the states and the companies."
No.
And why should I?"
To validate your point.
"You are the one asking people to believe that no ... insurance company has ever ... ceased conducting business ... in a state due to that states laws and policy's and it's affect on the bottom line."
Not me. I'm saying you're wrong to claim that "Aetna (and just about every other carrier) ... issue the pink slips, dump the insured's and leave town" because they couldn't "show a reasonable ROI" under the state's restrictions.
"You prove it hasn't happened."
I did. I gave a list of every time it has happened, and it was empty.
"Hey you're a narcissistic tech geek, aren't you Bob?"
The sign of realization that you've lost an argument. |
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I stand corrected on Aetna. I was using your example and simply forgot. It would not have been my choice. A common error I am sure a person of your narcissitic tendencies will seek to exploit.
"Not me. I'm saying you're wrong to claim that "Aetna (and just about every other carrier) ... issue the pink slips, dump the insured's and leave town" because they couldn't "show a reasonable ROI" under the state's restrictions.
"You prove it hasn't happened."
I did. I gave a list of every time it has happened, and it was empty.
"Hey you're a narcissistic tech geek, aren't you Bob?"
The sign of realization that you've lost an argument."
"I did. I gave a list of every time it has happened, and it was empty."
Funny stuff Bob. Funny stuff!
Your list is empty.
Mine ain't. You just don't get to see mine.
For some reason that's making you crazy.
And the day that I have lost something is the day I feel compelled to prove anything to you Bob.
And by your standards you would have already lost with the janitor line.
But I really did enjoy that empty list line Bob.
Again, funny stuff. Keep the laughs coming Bob.
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"a person of your narcissistic tendencies"
Like a little kid who's lost a fight, running home crying and flinging insults back over his shoulder. |
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Like the one who ignores most of the post and just comments on the insults? Because he has no comment on anything else?
Over his shoulder while running away?
Hey Bob. If it helps you sleep better tonight and keeps you off of the streets.....
Print it....Frame it....Spread the word.
You win! |
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"You win!"
See, that wasn't so difficult for you to admit, was it? |
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Of course not.
Like giving a dog a bone.
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I'm not sure what is more dumb-founding; The ignorance of the Left as to what Obama-Care entails or the actual Nationalized Health Care plan itself?
This flotsam of a proposal coined as "Obama-Care" is unfathomable. Not only has Universal Health Care proven to be a failed system everywhere, but it is beyond costly at-best. What's comical though is the fact that dunderheads like Obama and Pelosi postulate that this plan will actually prove to be deficit neutral. I didn't realize that expanding coverage to everyone while lowering premium's would save us money? Can someone elaborate to me on how that is actually feasible? WHERE ARE WE GOING TO GET THE MONEY TO PAY FOR THIS?
The bottom line is, the Obama Administration is a joke. They are about as comical as the nefarious, Left-wing media who has been in bed with the White House since this Presidents inception. It's one thing to disagree with someone, but then to chastise Fox News for doing their job and being "HONEST" is beyond comprehension. Whatever happened to Freedom of Speech or does that only apply to the Left?
P.S- This goes out to those who constantly want to lambast Bush and his massive deficit during his Presidency. I actually have no problem with that as his Fiscal Socialism left our country in a heap of trouble. HOWEVER, Obama is our President now, and his irresponsible spending practices has put our country in dire straits. This hitherto, inexperienced President has managed to exacerbate the debt and deficit beyond comprehension. Bush may have been bad, but Obama is infinitely worse, and has no business as the President of the United States. It's too bad that he was elected based on style rather than substance. And, because of that, our country is suffering the consequences. |
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Bob Munck writes: Thursday, October, 29, 2009 12:34 AM
Eugene 12:29 AM
"You win!"
See, that wasn't so difficult for you to admit, was it?
Arch says
Bob Munck. I notice you never admit when you have been proven wrong. You just run away to another thread and hope no one notices your many losses.
You are only fooling yourself as we all see it and notice your degeneracy in character like all libs with no morals.
You do not know how to be a decent guy. You have been a lib for so long that you don't have any decency left in you. No body likes you Bob. Too bad! |
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"Obama is our President now, and his irresponsible spending practices has put our country in dire straits"
Here are the actual figures:
CBO prediction (1/09, before Obama took office):
Spending: $3,543 billion
Revenues: $2,357 billion
-------------------------------
Deficit: $1,186 billion.
Actual values at end of fiscal year:
Spending: $3,515 billion ($28B less than predicted)
Revenues: $2,106 billion ($251B less)
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Deficit: $1,409 billion ($223B more)
So Obama actually REDUCED SPENDING by $28 billion from the prediction for Bush's last budget, but taxes fell so drastically because of the economic crash that the deficit was still higher.
So why exactly do wingnuts go on and on about Obama INCREASING spending? How is it "irresponsible" to CUT SPENDING by $28 billion? |
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ob Munck writes: Thursday, October, 29, 2009 1:17 AM
Christopher 12:47 AM
"Obama is our President now, and his irresponsible spending practices has put our country in dire straits"
Here are the actual figures:
CBO prediction (1/09, before Obama took office):
Spending: $3,543 billion
Revenues: $2,357 billion
-------------------------------
Deficit: $1,186 billion.
Actual values at end of fiscal year:
Spending: $3,515 billion ($28B less than predicted)
Revenues: $2,106 billion ($251B less)
-------------------------------
Deficit: $1,409 billion ($223B more)
So Obama actually REDUCED SPENDING by $28 billion from the prediction for Bush's last budget, but taxes fell so drastically because of the economic crash that the deficit was still higher.
So why exactly do wingnuts go on and on about Obama INCREASING spending? How is it "irresponsible" to CUT SPENDING by $28 billion?
Arch says
Read this and them try to pawn your drivel off on us
http://blog.heritage.org/2009/03/24/bush-deficit-vs-obama-d eficit-in-pictures/
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A domestic policy adviser to President Ronald Reagan and treasury official under President George H.W. Bush explains that 100% of Obama’s deficits are due to lower revenues (i.e. the Bush depression), not spending increases.
Bruce Bartlett: …Now let’s fast forward to the end of fiscal year 2009, which ended on September 30. According to CBO, it ended with spending at $3,515 billion and revenues of $2,106 billion for a deficit of $1,409 billion. To recap, the deficit came in $223 billion higher than projected, but spending was $28 billion and revenues were $251 billion less than expected.
http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/100-of-obama%e2%80 %99s-deficits-due-to-lower-revenues-not-spending-increases |
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When the rich get richer, everyone is better off.
Jobs are created and families make and spend money on goods and services that create income for many other families. It is this cycle of wealth that increases the lives of all.
Me- That's simply not true. In the last 30 years, the rich have gotten richer, and the rest of us have gotten poorer.
Oh, yeah, jobs are being created... in India, China and other third world hell-holes where you can set up a sweatshop and exploit people who have no rights. |
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What a disingenuous post you wrote about my links proving that YOUR party lied about the HR3200 Obamacare bill. Caught in the lies of your own party, and those you continue to attempt to perpetuate, since the facts are in plain english in the actual bill, you make a fool of yourself by attacking the messengers here: http://www.defendyourhealthcare.us/images/BILLS-111hr3200I H.pdf http://www.factcheck.org/2009/08/twenty-six-lies-about-hr- 3200/ You have nothing to offer but a lame contention that the HR3200 bill, that you've never read, is ambiguous. Then for the 26 lies exposed IN DETAIL by factcheck that you've never read, you make some vague reference that this source is not credible. Ridiculous! Then demand that I post all the recent versions of the bill now in Congress as if I have the obligation to educate a right wing fruitcake who's already proved that "You can't handle the truth". Get this, your party has viciously attacked HR3200 Obamacare with false accusations of what the bill contained ever since it was introduced. The very purpose of this site was to spread lies in order to whip the ignorant Tea Party masses into a frenzy, then to use liar Joe Wilson as the posterboy for uncivil behavior. Your Conservative Part has no wish whatsoever to promote meaningful reform of our terminally broken health care delivery system, as I've pointed out about Bachman's vapid comments that they do have a plan. Jow Wilson is the one who lied, and the Conservatives are taking millions in bribes from the lobbyists in order to keep the status quo. http://www.opednews.com/articles/No-you-re-the-liar-Joe-Wi -by-Ed-Tubbs-090911-804.html |
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That's what you get from Conservatives here about solutions for the train wreck that is our health care delivery system. Where's your bill, Cons? Where's the beef? Are you still gonna try to ride that rail that the U.S. has the best health care system in the world, that the health care providers aren't ripping us off with yearly double digit heath care increases, while the average specialist make 450 THOUSAND yearly for pushing poisonous pills at us? Who want's to tell me that I'm wrong, and why? The U.S. spends 17% of it's GNP on healthcare, the highest in the civilized world. 47 million uninsured. Millions more underinsured and getting screwed by paying premiums while not having their insurance cover their claims. Pre-existing conditions become a term that Americans become VERY familiar with only after being told "No coverage" by Insurance companies. Unpaid medical bills are, and have been for the last 20 years, the largest reason for bankruptcy in America. TRAIN WRECK! |
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Please verify where you got that figure that states that specialists make $450,000 a year. Facts, just the facts. |
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Correction to my last post re:doc's earnings. I meant to say that the site I've researched only showed Doc's as employees, NOT those self employed. Now for the proof of med inflation for the last decade of 131%. http://facts.kff.org/chart.aspx?ch=707 |
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Interesting stretch of the truth. I have never seen compensation broken down quite that way. Lets see they added time off as pay, they added the employers burden for SS as pay, they added medical insurance as pay. They added all the employer expenses as pay. So do you say you make a certain amount in pay and then include your vacation as extra pay. Do you count the portion of SS your employer pays in as pay. Do you consider what they pay for mandated state disability or unemployment pay. I bet not.
Now for a specialist in private practice. He pays anywhere from 150,000 to 200,00 in malpractice depending on his specialty. he pays both the employer and employee portion of SS and medicare. He pays his own disability insurance his own workers compensation. He pays rent for his space and employees to deal with all those time consuming insurance and medicare forms.
You had better go back and do some more real research and then get back to me. |
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And by the way just because the cost of health care went up does not mean that the physicians pay did. In fact I would go out on a limb and say that most doctors has seen a significant decline in their yearly income. |
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I'm beginning to think you ARE a Doc, with your ridiculous assertions that Docs pay 200,000 yearly for malpractice, and that the double digit medical inflation for the last ten years are happening with DECLINING wages for Docs. I've provided factual proof with the links I gave you for their wages, and you come up with wild conjecture and NOTHING for proof. You have some gall telling ME to do research! |
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